mcfaul/mcphail/mckillop ballycastle

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orkrad1
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mcfaul/mcphail/mckillop ballycastle

Post by orkrad1 » 06 May 2015, 22:49

Greetings from NZ

My ancestor John MCFALL married Anne Jane MCKILLOP on 27 July 1868 at Ramoan. They were of Church of Ireland persuasion. They lived in Ballycastle and three children were born there. Later they moved to Greenock Renfrewshire Scotland and had more children and changed their name to MCPHAIL. From the marriage records John MCFALL's father was Charles MCFALL. My query is where were Charles and John born? Are they Irish or Scots? I would appreciate your help on this. Thanks Orkrad

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Re: mcfaul/mcphail/mckillop ballycastle

Post by irishgen » 08 May 2015, 16:16

Most people from Scotland were mostly Presbyterian.

The Church of Ireland is associated with the Church of England.

The Church of Scotland was not associated with them at that time frame.

I think that they might have far off ancestors that originated from Scotland.

The McF's had a Castle in Donegal, the mcfall/mcfaul/mcphail/ and with various spelling have been in Co Antrim a long time.

As you might read I am not a great expert on the different religions but am only sharing what I know.

Liam

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Re: mcfaul/mcphail/mckillop ballycastle

Post by Elwyn » 10 May 2015, 16:37

Orkrad,

I think the answer to your question about whether your ancestors were Irish or Scots depends on how far back you want to go. In the 1500s and early 1600s a lot of Scots settlers came to the area around Ballycastle and the Glens of Antrim to settle on the McDonnell estate there. They came from the McDonnell/MacDonald estates in Scotland ie Islay, Jura, Kintyre. (There's loads of McPhails on Islay to this day). But many of their ancestors may have come from Ireland before that. If you go a bit further back to 495AD youÔÇÖll find that Fergus Mor, leader of the Scotiae tribe from that same corner of Co Antrim went over to Scotland and established the kingdom of Dalriada which stretched all the way down the Scottish west coast (HQ was at Dunadd, near Oban) to and including part of Co Antrim. Scotland is named after them (so Scotland is named after an Irish tribe!). They also took their Irish language (Erse as it was sometimes referred to in Scotland) and in about 400 years that completely replaced the welsh based language that the picts and other inhabitants of Scotland had spoken until then.

ItÔÇÖs only about 10 miles from Tor Head in Co Antrim to the Mull of Kintyre in Scotland, 25 miles from Ballycastle to the island of Islay, and the Atlantic Ocean and Irish Sea were the freeways of that time. The fishermen from Port Charlotte in Islay often used to land their catch in Ballycastle because it was easier than taking it to Oban the nearest significant Scottish port with a fish market. The Scottish King, Robert the Bruce is supposed to have hidden in cave on Rathlin Island just off Ballycastle, when he was on the run from the English in 1307. (They recently put up a blue plaque there to commemorate his temporary residence there). Robert the BruceÔÇÖs wife was born in Ireland, a daughter of one of the Earls of Ulster. So over a period going back nearly 5000 years and longer, since the last ice age retreated, people were back and forth between Scotland and Ireland all the time, trading, intermarrying and squabbling. Your ancestors probably came from that background. Scots or Irish? You tell me. Hard to say really sometimes.

Elwyn

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Re: mcfaul/mcphail/mckillop ballycastle

Post by orkrad1 » 06 Jun 2015, 06:03

Thank you Irishgen and Elwyn for such lengthy explanations. I would still like to know if my McFauls/McPhails have any verifiable records before the marriage of John McFaul and Anne Jane McKillop c 1868 at Ramoan Ballycastle . I am hoping that someone with relatives containing these names will have some information to share.

Kia Ora Orkrad

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Re: mcfaul/mcphail/mckillop ballycastle

Post by Elwyn » 11 Jun 2015, 17:13

Statutory recording of births and death started in Ireland in 1864. Non RC marriages were recorded from 1845 onwards. Prior to those dates you need to rely on church records where they still exist.

Ramoan Church of Ireland has no baptism records prior to 1879; it has marriages from 1845 onwards and burials 1805 ÔÇô 1831 and then 1879 onwards. The early and missing records were destroyed in the 1922 fire in Dublin.

So if the family came from the Ramoan parish area, then it doesnÔÇÖt appear that there will be much in the way of earlier records to find. You may find some gravestones for them, and they may appear in Griffiths Valuation, the tithe applotment records and the 1803 agricultural census. What townlands, and what fathersÔÇÖ occupations were given on the 1868 marriage certificate?

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Re: mcfaul/mcphail/mckillop ballycastle

Post by orkrad1 » 14 Jun 2015, 01:07

Thanks for your help. This is the information from a downloaded Church record for the MCFALL/MCKILLOP marriage in 1868. The Parish District is MOYLE. No Townland. Church Ramoan Church of Ireland. Minister Rev G Gillington. Church St James?

Husband John MCFALL. Address Ballycastle. Occupation Labourer. Full Age. Bachelor. Husbands father Charles MCFALL Occupation Labourer.

Wife Ann Jane MCKILLOP. No address given. Full Age . Wife's father Archibald MCKILLOP. Occupation Labourer .

No information on the mothers of the couple marrying. Witnesses John MCLaughlin and Jane MCLaughlin .

Children born of this marriage in Ireland Margaret Jane 1869, John1871,Anne 1873.

The family appear to have lived largely in the Ballycastle area until they came to Scotland sometime in the 1880's though I cant find them in the 1881 census for Greenock Renfrewshire.

Regards orkrad.

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Re: mcfaul/mcphail/mckillop ballycastle

Post by orkrad1 » 15 Jun 2015, 03:21

Hello. Kia Ora from New Zealand
Thanks for your help so far. I posted a reply yesterday but it appears to have vanished into cyber space. John MFFALL and Ann Jane MCKILLOP were married in 1868 in Ramoan . Their denomination was Church of Ireland and the parish was MOYLE. No townland specified. Parents of both parties were labourers. The couple had three children born in the Ballycastle area before they moved to Greenock, Renfrewshire Scotland. The first child Margaret Jane MCFALL born 1 May 1869 has a birth registered at Drumavillin, Ramoan Ballycastle . The second child Annie MCFALL born in 1873 is registered at Castle Street Ballycastle. Does this help at all with their parents' likely origins?

Any thoughts on this couple and their offspring would be appreciated.

Regards Orkrad

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